Centrism is a political outlook or position that involves acceptance and/or support of a balance of social equality and a degree of social hierarchy, while opposing political changes which would result in a significant shift of society strongly to either the left or the right. Centrists are not in a current position of dominance, but might be in a short time. Not supporting or pursuing a course of action that is neither liberal nor conservative middle-of-the-road center – of or belonging to neither the right nor the left politically or intellectually There are also centrist Dems and centrist Republicans which may lean more toward one side of the spectrum, but have centrist policies people agree with and the premise of centrism in their policies. Many different languages also contain words that mean centrist. Definition of centrist.
1 : often capitalized : a member of a center party.
2 : a person who holds moderate views.
Possibly the main factor here is not ‘power’ but the overwhelming influence of the group (especially well organized subgroups) that push the whole group in one, sometimes dangerous direction. This group tends to influence others in its path ; people from the Nazi era in Germany talk about how they just wanted to go along with the friends and even the emotion of the larger group (eg at rallies, meetings etc.) The power of the group is often greater than the authority at the top (though authorities are important also). The main principles of social influence ( Cialdini ) explain an awful lot here.
I’m not sure it is stupidity, unless Bonhoffer meant giving up your own thoughts for the group (happening now in major social movements, no one thinks and is aware of the real data on environmental issues, for example).
I owned and operated a liquor bar. Rule number one rule is “never” argue with a drunk. One might think of stupidity as being drunk on the rhetoric of another person, or group.
This is the closest thing to a useful insight I’ve seen in these comments. We can’t just toss stupid people. How do we get them to sober up? The obvious answer is to take away the internet (where people come to get drunk on stupid), but that isn’t possible — or is it?
Introverts tend to be more independent because they don’t seek group approval (or interaction), it doesn’t mean they cant come to the wrong conclusions to insulate themselves in ‘comforting’ ideas, but generally they already don’t rely on others thus leading to less chances of succumbing to the group-think happening… but for extroverts, then need group approval and recognition, leaving more chances to lessen themselves for the group… when really they should probably just laugh and raise those in their group up with them…
“Not knowing the truth doesn’t make you ignorant, not wanting to know the truth is what makes you ignorant.” (Unknown)
Sigh, if only… It’s called the illusory truth effect, the tendency to believe information is true after repeated exposure from a source even if the information is false. The more exposure one is subjected to, the closer they get to never accepting the truth no matter how much proof is presented. The human mind can be full of education & knowledge, yet has very little maturity and wisdom. An immature foolish person can create many immature foolish people if the original has power and many support the foolish person. The more that follow and listen to the fool, the more society becomes foolish, less wise, and irrational laws become the norm and materialism is supported and honored above all.
The active denial and dismissal of any thoughts that challenge their current perception, is the most convincing evidence that stupidity is indeed a moral degradation. And that is how ignorance and stupidity differ as well. There should be a strong moral obstacle to actively deny information and willfully remain, or more precisely pretend to be willfully ignorant. In my opinion, stupidity also indicates cowardice because listening to and accepting challenging thoughts and then accepting that you were wrong requires a bit of courage to be self critical and emotional security to accept that humbling and evolve as a person.
Solitude liberates a man of stupidity and gives clarity when observing the insanity he once knew. “To Argue with a Person Who has Renounced Reason is Like Administering Medicine to the Dead.” ~Thomas Paine~
― The Sixth Law of Stupidity: A Biophysical Interpretation of Carlo Cipolla’s Stupidity Laws
1. “Always and inevitably everyone underestimates the number of stupid individuals in circulation.” 2. “The probability that a certain person be stupid is independent of any other characteristic of that person.” 3. “A stupid person is a person who causes losses to another person or to a group of persons while himself deriving no gain and even possibly incurring losses.” 4. “Non-stupid people always underestimate the damaging power of stupid individuals. In particular non-stupid people constantly forget that at all times and places and under any circumstances to deal and/or associate with stupid people always turns out to be a costly mistake.” 5. “A stupid person is the most dangerous type of person.”
6. “Humans are the stupidest species in the ecosystem.” ―
The Basic Laws of Human Stupidity (Economic Historian Carlo Cipolla) “Cipolla’s quadrant highlights several fundamental features of those systems that can be described as both “complex” and “autocatalytic,” where the growth rate is proportional to the size of the stocks. These systems include living creatures, biomes, entire ecosystems, as well as human-created entities such as companies, organizations, and entire economic systems. The analysis of Cipolla’s quadrant, carried out using the Lotka-Volterra model shows the similarity of many phenomena driven by the dissipation of energy potentials: from life to commerce.
There are, indeed, some basic laws at work in these systems and when we use the term “law” for a physical system we mean that some factors are at work to keep it, if not perfectly regulated, at least within some boundaries. Cipolla’s quadrant tells us that these complex systems are all dominated by the same factors, but that these factors can operate in different ways. The simplest case is the predator/prey (bandit/victim) relationship, in which the predator seeks only maximum short-term profit.
The result is periodical oscillations, homeorhetic. It is also possible to see the condition of “stupidity” where the actions of the actors in the exchanges lead to doom for everyone and everything. In ecosystems it is extinction, in economic systems, it is financial ruin. The analysis also shows the possibility for these systems to adjust in such a way to attain the condition that Cipolla describes as “intelligent people” and that in ecosystems goes under the name of “symbiosis.” As proposed by Lynn Margulis, symbiotic systems that go under the name of “halobiont’s” are the basic unit of the ecosystem. We may extend this definition to all kinds of autocatalytic complex systems, including those forming the human economy. But if halobiont’s are an efficient unit of energy dissipation, why does stupidity exist? In particular, why is it so common in the economy as Cipolla correctly notes?
Cipolla’s description of stupid people is that “..some are stupid and others are not, and that the difference is determined by nature and not by cultural forces or factors. One is stupid in the same way one is red-haired; one belongs to the stupid set as one belongs to a blood group. A stupid man is born a stupid man by an act of Providence.” What Cipolla calls “an act of Providence” may be seen also as the result of the genetic setup of human beings. Indeed, humans are a relatively recent element of the ecosystem: modern humans are believed to have appeared only some 300,000 years ago, although other hominins practicing the same lifestyle may be as old as a few million years. Yet, this is a young age in comparison to that of most species currently existing in the ecosphere.
So, humankind’s stupidity may be not much more than an effect of the relative immaturity of our species, which still has to learn how to live in harmony with the ecosystem. That explains what we called here “the 6th law of stupidity,” stating that humans are the stupidest species on Earth. It is a condition that may lead the human species to extinction in a non-remote future. But it is also possible that, if humans survive, one day they will learn how to interact with the ecosystem of their planet without destroying it. Acknowledgment. One of us (U.B.) would like to remember the figure of Carlo Maria Cipolla (1922-2000), whom he had a chance to meet in Berkeley in the 1980s. Cipolla was a brilliant and creative mind, but also a kind and open personality. His work, not just about stupidity, is still having an important impact on the way we see the world.”
Bonhoeffer‘s Theory of Stupidity – YouTube
The reality is there are stupid people on the left and right.
The argument really falls apart at 2:06 and onward.
This applies to all people regardless of political ideology. if you think it’s just the left or right that’s done this lately. I suggest you re-watch the video.
The left and right have been doing this since the beginning of politics regardless of who’s in power. Whoever is not in power just use their stupid followers to undermine the current powers stupid followers. If you can’t see that, then perhaps re-watch the video again until it sinks in. You completely miss his point. His point is that stupid people on both sides are purposely wound up and set loose by the powers that be to keep the middle class divided to maintain the status quo.
“Various factions pit us against each other as an obvious misdirect, so we don’t mess with the status quo.” It’s pretty obvious when you spit out the supposed evil deeds of your enemies while ignoring the evil deeds of your own side.
What magnifies beyond belief is the increasing stupidity combined with disengagement. Our government blatantly lies constantly yet people are lemmings. Various factions pit us against each other as an obvious misdirect, so we don’t mess with the status quo. Even people who are capable of seeing the truth don’t want to be bothered thinking about it or don’t want to risk their comfort and/or stay in denial. We’re now beyond the point of saying “If we don’t wake up…” We are in the poo and the only way out, unlikely as it is, is going to be messy as hell. Hopefully someday this period in history will be known as the Latter Day Dark Ages.
How would you define Bonhoeffer’s version of stupidity? Work together as a class to devise a definition. What qualities must someone possess, or lack, to be considered stupid as Bonhoeffer describes it. In what type of situation would someone display their stupidity? What can we do to avoid stupidity in today’s society? Discuss with your class and let us know in the comments below what they think.
Dietrich Bonhoeffer argued that stupid people are more dangerous than evil ones. This is because while we can protest against or fight evil people, against stupid ones we are defenseless — reasons fall on death ears. Bonhoeffer’s famous text, which we slightly edited for this video, serves any free society as a warning of what can happen when certain people gain too much power. #stupidity
DIG DEEPER Dietrich Bonhoeffer’s Final Words –
This Day in History Dietrich Bonhoeffer Quotes SOURCES Dietrich Bonhoeffer, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietric… Original Text http://southsidemessenger.com/bonhoef… Bonhoeffer Pastor, martyr, prophet, spy (Student edition) https://books.google.co.th/books?id=P…
One time I asked my seventh grade teacher, “Do you know everything?”
The reason I asked him this question is because of his ability to teach proficiently and his impact on my life as a student. He chuckled and said to me, “I don’t know everything, only a fool knows everything.” That profound message has resonated within my heart ever since.
“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience, It is easier to fool someone, than to convince them they have been fooled” – Mark Twain
“I would never engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed man”.
Ignorance is just not knowing. I am quite ignorant about auto mechanics, but I could learn. Stupid is not caring that you don’t know, or pretending you DO know. As Ron White said, “You can’t educate stupid”,
I’m reminded of Ben Franklin’s observation.
“We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.”
I love this! I had never heard of it before. For years I have been saying that ignorance does not bother me however, belligerent ignorance is infuriating.
Pants on Fire | UnCommon Sense‘
Kids Listen: Young Ben Franklin It’s a great quote, but it’s probably not from Ben Franklin. Etymologist Barry Popik researched the quote in 2013 and found no evidence that Franklin said it. A 2019 PolitiFact article rated the attribution to Franklin “Pants on Fire.” Nah, statistically it’s nigh on impossible to go through life and not learn something , even accidentally. There’s a lot of effort that goes into remaining that dumb. I tell my kids something similar that it takes hard work and energy to be bad. to be good you can do nothing.
Unfortunately, stupidity is the greatest pandemic America has ever seen.
Democrats are the ones who are dumbing education down and making everyone “equal”. The current numpty in charge is allowing the destruction of the country even faster than his forebears. I suspect the division is so wide that this will probably be the final decade to complete the destruction that the globalists have been aiming for. Have fun with your attempt at being Confucius. If you mock those jumping off a cliff as stupid and leave out those stepping off… One would be safe to assume you’re not one to step aside. whether one “steps” or “jumps” off a cliff, one is still going over the cliff no? In fact, terminal velocity applies to both.
Biden compares himself to FDṚ He is barely audible and can barely make a coherent sentence. He was a plagiarist and a sociopath But the DNC preferred him to Sanderṣ.
The lefties are destroying the place – I know I am glad I don’t live in one of those “Cancel culture” “defund the police ” cities that’s for sure. “Should the Police be the people called in for a mental health issue, or a non-violent marital issue, or for a domestic non-violent dispute?” Yes, people call the police when those non violent things threaten to turn violent. Those things turn violent at the drop of a hat and the police are trained to subdue people without causing harm. If you don’t agree with them it is because you are somehow a white supremist even if you are not white – it is amazing the depths the Marxist democrats will go.
I’m not so sure that the Southern Democrats of the 1860s are an appropriate stand in for stupidity. Theirs was more a stand against centralized federal authority. Something we are suffering from at the present. Millions would probably have to die to reverse it, just like the Southern Democrats in the 1860’s had to be dealt with in an extremely harsh way the democrats of today will too. Since 1965 with the Hart-Cellar Act to this day with the floodgates of illegals, cancel culture, BLM, Antifa, defund the police, their 9/11 version with the never ending Covid. A geriatric president they had to build a special White house movie set for as they continue to cover up his medical condition, a cackling veep that has to hire child actors to faking accents. They use the race card for everything if you don’t agree with them, which is most things.
Sexually grooming kids and trying to confuse them about their genders in the schools, etc etc. They are pure evil and way past the possibility of compromise. You can negotiate about tax policy, health care etc. Most of the things they are engaging in are just wrong and evil and shouldn’t even be part of any decent person’s discussion. So you invent the standard of what counts I see. Unfortunately for you your own example does not bode well since several countries have been part of these so called wars you are referencing. So then you vote for pure anarchy or only the rich and those who can afford private security? Or how about the media stops with the cherry picking narratives they want, namely race baiting. Do you know that when someone says 1 or 5 or even 543 that they are not saying that 5 is exactly equal to 1 or even 543?
However, one thing for sure is that they are all numbers.
I am not interested in linguistic games with these radicalized leftists who are destroying this country with their “cancel culture”, BLM, etc. Whether one wants to use Mao, Hitler, Communist, or Marxist. They all, as numbers are, like each other. These “numbers” are okay with dictators, they want the citizenry to completely rely on them, they go after things like freedom of speech and religion, etc. and promote things that are destructive especially to the family, they like to divide families, which they do with their perversions in the schools. They want the citizens’ guns, because they don’t want people fighting against them and the Panopticon they all like to set up.
Now are they exactly the same (because this is where the lefty’s think they are being so clever, of course not). They have way more in common than they do differences, however. Our country especially, certain types of people, are totally open about wanting to embrace these ideologies and the globalists are spending billions to destroy Western Civilization countries to implement it, it is pretty damn obvious really. Seriously scary times ahead, a lot of people will no doubt die as a result. When it comes to the Democrats. They’re all two sides of the same coin.
“The secret of freedom lies in educating people, whereas the secret of tyranny is in keeping them ignorant.” ~Maximilien de Robespierre
My favorite quote of all time: “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, while wiser people are so full of doubts.” ~ Bertrand Russell.
“Non-stupid people always underestimate the damaging power of stupid individuals. In particular non-stupid people constantly forget that at all times and places and under any circumstances to deal and/or associate with stupid people always turns out to be a costly mistake.” Carlo Cipolla In the 1970s, an economic historian called Carlo Cipolla wrote a provocative article titled “The Basic Laws of Human Stupidity”. This week’s episode is about his theory of the destructiveness of stupid behavior and why it is so underestimated and misunderstood. Show Notes: The Basic Laws Of Human Stupidity by Carlo M. Cipolla The Five Universal Laws Of Stupidity by Corinne Purtill 294 The Five Laws Of Stupidity
We have been in perpetual war somewhere and at all times, globalization demands it. Now verify that you are not stupid. You may want to broaden your definition of “war” since not all wars use guns. There is war on our children, there is war on free speech, etc. The panopticon that the globalists are building is using all kinds of “war” tactics to accomplish its goal of making us all slaves to their apparatus. Wars of mine or wars of yours? “It’s human nature, even in paradise people will complain that something’s bad and going worse.”
I suspect your word “going” was supposed to be the word “getting”?
You know how? You justify yourself by appealing to: well, the world will never be perfect . . . so . . . deal with it?
The Empty Can Rattles the Most.
So I take it you are a radical socialist democrat who thinks things are going great? And the current Numpty and his cackling assistant are just doing a fantastic job? You think “cancel Culture” is awesome? You consider yourself smarter than everyone else because you are “woke”? You are a big fan of groups like BLM and Antifa? You believe that the government should control all aspects of your life? If so, really, what does this say about you?
Tree Huggers and flat earthers are often lefties. Q appealed to a small extreme faction. Now Alex Jones i have always passed off as a loon but as time goes on he appears to be vindicated. You are just as far in your leftist echo chamber as extreme factions on the right. Don’t believe the media. Most Americans are centrists, it’s just the liberal party has been hijacked by the far left. The GOP did not vote in a man with dementia—the Dems did—-but then your comment just confirms how ignorant and easily duped the Dems are. Calling an entire nation stupid because of heighted political tensions (what I assume is what you’re referring to) is stupid in it of itself. Not calling you stupid by the way, the statement is.
All one has to do is look at the Rittenhouse case to prove it’s the Dems that are the willfully stupid. He was never part of a militia, even the grainiest of video’s shows the kid was defending himself from an attackers both times he killed someone, and none of the people he shot were black. Yet I get people whining all these things and adding how he crossed states lines with a gun (he actually didn’t), thus that means he should be charged with murder.
Even if the gun thing was true it would still not be murder but there is no arguing with stupid. Oh and then their was murder of 15,000 old people by Cuomo just so he could slash care home funding. The Right repeatedly said putting covid patients in care homes would KILL PEOPLE, but they were just called wrong and stupid partitions. Why? Because the holy Democrats said no one would die so it must be true, that’s why! And then when the truth finally came out . . . Nothing. Cuomo spent MONTHS in power after committing mass murder and the left PROTECTED HIM.
He was a member of the most holy party so he must be guarded. It was only after it came out he was the harasser (of mostly Dem women I noticed) that they kinda, sorta, gently pushed him out. Never will he face justice for being the most horrific murders in New York history, even greater than the 9/11 terrorist attacks. Just give me ANY equivalent where Trump or one of his supporters directly and willfully murdered 15,000 or more people just so he could make a quick buck. Oh, and I know he is a sleazy businessman and is accused of not paying some workers, among other things. Didn’t murder them though! Did you know Biden has a history of being a KKK sympathizer, or seen ANY of the videos of him sniffing little girls? Or even seen the video where he PROUDLY admits to blackmailing Ukraine the exact same way Trump was accused (and found innocent) of? I’m guessing not. A Great Watch on an Age Old Marriage Custom and its Severe Consequences https://youtu.be/v2wDriJxAxY
Described more than 1000 years later as the Dunning-Kruger effect.
Learning what’s inside the box and then stepping outside of the box, then you will have opened eyes and ears to listen and really learn. “Smart people learn from everything and everyone, average people from their experiences, stupid people already have all the answers.” – Socrates
Translated by whom? And from which of Socrates’ writings?
Honestly, it sounds like someone re-writing a statement that Socrates said, trying to make it more American English than classic Greek, and dumbing it down on the way. Socrates did NOT talk/write like the quote everyone is liking so much. You’d only have to read some of his works to see this. Sounds to me like something offered by someone who vaguely recognizes the name “Socrates” as representing wisdom, and therefore since the quote sounds wise, they assume Socrates actually said it. Or wrote it. Here’s a hint for you: “The Socratic Method” — the teacher asks a student an open-ended question, with the question implying that the student should examine his own perspective (the student’s own) more closely, and find the flaws for himself.
This is the foundation of good law school classroom discussion, though not many law professors are good at it and many of them do it poorly, making students hate the teacher’s poor attempt and in the process, disliking “The Socratic Method” even if that’s now how Socrates would have done it. I’d submit that the Socratic Method is designed to reveal a student’s ignorant self-confidence (hubris). If we accept my submission as true, we can surmise that someone wrote a one-sentence summary of the Socratic Method, and attributed that one sentence summary to Socrates. But Socrates was a master of implication, not forthright obvious statements.
You’d do well for yourself if you stopped assuming a quote attributed somewhere means the quote is honest or true in its supposed reference. Oftentimes people make things up and attribute them to someone known for wisdom, and they often do this in an attempt to seem smarter than they actually are. That’s quite ironic if you think about what Bonhoeffer’s Tyranny of Stupidity is suggesting. It’s far better to honestly admit you don’t know the accuracy of a quote, than to assume the quote is perfectly true in its attribution.
Again, as in my response to Hunter Roberts, that summary of Alighieri’s thought is a one-sentence distillation of the entire scheme of the circles of hell described in The Inferno, and specifically the circle reserved for ignorant know-it-all types, the people who are full of hubris while offering themselves as wise men.
It’s precisely why history is being removed, mis /un informed. History (people, events, things) show us those follies we wish not to repeat. Things can be perfected, as well as made more dangerous. Take down monuments and put falsehoods and misinformation in its place so there’s no “clear” path from history. Then society is doomed to repeat it. Communist/socialist leaders did just that along with that which the Democratic (& few republicans) party has been doing with riots, economic control that makes them more dependent on government, and thereby, poorer and less productive; controlling commodities, schools, citizens, and mass media to direct the citizens ideology, etc. Leaders such as Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, and even Pol Pot were the examples
How do you presume to Dx my state of mind without even knowing me?
I’m not even mildly unsettled, let alone “triggered,” by anything you have said nor anything anyone else in this long comment thread has said.
Perhaps you’re projecting your own emotions onto me?
I was hoping to talk about the origins of that supposedly accurate Socrates quote, but you seem to want to talk about my state of mind. That’s quite curious.
I don’t like the use of “stupid” or “stupidity” in this context really…
Ignorance and stupidity are not synonymous. Ignorance represents a lack of information/knowledge — you can be ignorant of the rules for calculating the hypotenuse of a triangle because you don’t know the rule. This doesn’t mean that you are stupid — that implies something about the individual’s aptitude/ability (i.e., something internal – and possibly fixed – about that person).
If you teach the rule then the person is no longer ignorant — i.e., ignorance is diminished by evidence/learning. When the person denies the evidence — for example, they say that there is no evidence for human evolution, or no evidence for anthropocentric climate change, or no evidence that vaccines are safe — then they are being willfully ignorant. This is a motivated bias rather than a mere lack of information — it is the denial of evidence, the refusal of learning. That is when ignorance becomes dangerous. It is easy to say that people who deny evidence are “stupid” but that’s too easy and not at all helpful in combating that type of motivated bias.
For example, it is very easy to say that anti-vaxxers are “stupid” — and very appealing to think of them in this way — but that’s not really the case. I know some anti-vaxxers (I am definitely not one of them, to be clear), who are smart and caring people who have a very different threshold for what counts as evidence. They treat their feelings about the issue as totally valid – even more valid than what the science demonstrates. That they don’t “feel” right about vaccinations is enough to convince them that they should not vaccinate their children (or themselves in these Covid-19 times).
Within my own mental dichotomy, they are being “willfully ignorant” because they have seen/read the evidence and have ultimately denied it because their feelings tell them something else. They are not stupid, but they are frustrating as #%@&… and they cannot be swayed with evidence (which is the antithesis of everything that I hold dear as an empiricist). To call them merely “stupid” ignores the reason that underlie their motivations to remain unwavering in their views — and if you ignore the underlying mechanism, then you have no chance at all to make any chips in that armor (as unlikely as that seems to be with such deeply entrenched beliefs).
One problem I have with your examples of climate change and vaccine hesitancy and perhaps I am misunderstanding the entirety of your message, but I don’t think it’s so black and white. For instance, competing evidence about efficacy or safety of vaccines either in isolation or compared to our natural immune system. Some of us see one side of the argument as being propaganda for vaccination and actions against climate change. If we just blindly believe the proposed facts about anything, then we fall into the willful ignorance category the same as disregarding information.
As far as the climate change supposedly caused or accelerated by humanity, I’m choosing to be willfully ignorant and any opinion I have on the matter is based on feelings and not logic or facts. As a personal account, my aunt after getting her second dose had stroke-like symptoms. However, she isn’t a very healthy person and to be honest, far from it. So I have two options, believe it was an adverse reaction to the vaccine or the event was bound to happen at some point.
Given her poor lifestyle decisions, I’ll give the benefit of doubt to the vaccine and say it is probably her poor choices. My ex wife got both doses of the vaccine and as far as I know hasn’t had any observable adverse side effects. So you’d think my non-compliance with the vaccine mandate is unjustified, but after seeing multiple videos of peoples experiences as well as many videos of doctors saying they are seeing an uptick in certain medical cases after getting even the first vaccine dose makes me and others like me very hesitant.